Kya Marienfeld:
Good to go.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, I will call to order this June 12 2025 regular meeting of the Melab
City Planning Commission at 606 p.m. Thanks for patience everyone are as often
having some technological difficulties here in chamber.
Kya Marienfeld:
First item of business is citizens to be heard.
Kya Marienfeld:
We do not have anyone here in chambers for citizens to be heard.
Kya Marienfeld:
So we will move on.
Kya Marienfeld:
We also didn't receive any emails about anything or items on the agenda as
well.
Kya Marienfeld:
Also in attendance tonight our city staffers, Johanna Blanco, Corey Shurt,
Marcy Mason, Kelsey Garcia, our city council liaison Luke Wojciechowski, and
then planning commissioners myself Kya Marienfeld, Jill Tatton, and Myles
Lofton.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, first item of business is approval of minutes from our special
meeting last week, our June 4 2025 special meeting.
Kya Marienfeld:
If you folks have had a chance to look over that can entertain a motion or if
we need to make any corrections.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Miles Loftin:
I'll go ahead and move to approve the minutes from the June 4 2025 special
meeting.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, we have a motion to approve from Myles is there a second.
Jill Tatton:
I will second that.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, a second from Jill.
Kya Marienfeld:
All in favor of approving the minutes from our June 4th meeting say aye.
Kya Marienfeld:
Aye.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, motion passes minutes approved.
Kya Marienfeld:
Of course I just exited out of my agenda.
Kya Marienfeld:
Here we go.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Kya Marienfeld:
Next, our action item for the evening, item 4.1, which is consideration of
adoption of ordinance 202508 an ordinance amending title three of the municipal
code update chapter 3.50 master fee schedule and modifying certain fees and
rates charged by the city.
Kya Marienfeld:
This is a discussion and possible action.
Kya Marienfeld:
And it looks like we have our city treasurer Marcy Mason here at the dais to
present.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Thank you guys.
Kya Marienfeld:
Welcome.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Let me share and apologize I did not make it.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Okay, so I don't know if you guys had a chance to review the ordinance and
everything for this.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
This is a brand new process that we were informed of by our attorneys that we
are now required to put the master fee schedule in front of planning commission
for recommendation to city council, because of the impacts or implications it
may have on our community for building.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
So, all kinds of stuff so.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Any how close this sorry it's in my way on my screen.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Okay, so you can't use touchscreen on it.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I'm not sure if you guys have any questions or if you guys want me to go
through anything I'm happy to just kind of review the changes we have that are
associated to planning and specifically which is building fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I may additionally comment on that that, again, specifically to what the state
code update is referring to is development development review or development
impact fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So that's very broad, and we're trying to negotiate with that is but as much
said what we're looking at, specifically in our field tonight would be the
building fees, which is the section we're looking at 165.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And then the following section which is engineering and planning these those
are those are really what we have the authority to be reviewing tonight so if
there are questions that are outside of that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We have the treasure here but that's not really what this recognition will be
based on so like Mars said this is meant to be how these fees are being adjusted
to affect what it is that falls within your purview.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yes, and we understand that you guys have probably not seen this at this
capacity before.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
This is our master fee schedule this is every single fee that the city charges
to the community, essentially.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
While you're streaming down maybe I'll comment a few of these.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Go ahead that with building fees in particular all that we're really doing
within this section if you did take time to review it is there were adjustments,
given the requirements that again the state adjustments
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
have been placing on the plan review and building permit process that we're
essentially raising what is that minimum fee rate from 65 to 85 to compensate
for the lack of better term expedited requirements the building department
spacing so
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
more staff time at a quicker rate.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So these are specifically building fees regulated that we cannot be charging
more than it is the offset that it takes to exercise the service.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's kind of universal I think throughout most of the building and review
fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
What we will see though, is if when we get down to the planning fees there.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
They're a little bit larger fees than what we're seeing here as far as minimums
go.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
However, given most of those exercises go through DRT many departments and
other review divisions.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We're not even getting close to breaking even and we have done an audit on this
and have the intention to someday bring us closer to a neutral revenue balance
to our expenditures with this.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But at this time we're within the planning realm we'll get there, just raising
them that they're consistent within themselves.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But we when we did this audit back in 2020 2022.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I think it was late 2021.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We found that we were grossly in we did population like communities as well as
Resort type communities.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We were by far the lowest among all those even given that we're both we're a
small city but we're handling big level projects and complex projects.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We still have these less than and I don't want to call any new space out by
name, but some municipalities that are not dealing with the things we're dealing
with, we're charging even less than they are.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So we're, we're well behind in updating this.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Again, this is just getting us to where it's consistent within itself but I
think that's my HBO effects.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Thanks Marcy.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yeah, no problem at all.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
And I think what you're trying to emphasize is eventually we would like to have
a fee study done so that we can have it like, you know, a solid understanding of
all of our fees and, and be able to bring it back to planning and or council
with a true recommendation, depending on our expenditures and stuff.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
But that is like way down the road and above my, my head so Okay, so, um, do
you guys have any specific questions that you would like to ask, as Corey said
for the planning stuff is very everything that's changing is red line to make it
very clear on those changes and if you guys have questions I'd be happy to
answer them.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Or Cory.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Would you mind scrolling down to the planning engineering fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So I think as we scroll down, you're going to see Some of these red lines
exist.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Again, minor edits that are making some of these minimum fees for again, some
of our more complex projects, at least match the minimum planning exercise
process fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So master plan development, for example, as a $350 base fee, plus $50 per lot.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's what we're changing it to.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That is just basically covered planning that doesn't cover all of the
additional plan review that goes behind what you can tell some of our more
recent MPD is which are hyper complex.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So again, just getting neutral.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We're not getting neutral.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We're just trying to make it consistent within itself.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Sorry.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Correct.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
And the ordinance that I prepared for this is very detailed.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
It's telling you for revising updating what it changed from what it went to to
try to have it compacted into one place so you don't have to scroll, you know,
55 pages worth of documents or 53 pages worth of documents.
Kya Marienfeld:
The side by side is nice and I think the red line in particular.
Kya Marienfeld:
You want to change coordinator in all forms because you're still planning
director.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Was that on the large scale projects.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I'm seeing that now.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, I think, yeah, we play coordinator will be the term that we want to use
and I'm seeing just below that that even playing directors still exists.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So yes, I think the reason we can do a find and replace.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yes, that was landscaping is because we were currently going through that was
picked up.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So thank you.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And yes, I think that'd be a great recommendation to just a nitpick but I mean,
no, definitely.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And that's, you know, unfortunately for us, the building fee changes.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's exactly what happened.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
They changed a series of them but some of them got missed that should have been
changed last year.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's the building fees that we're doing right now.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's already been premeditated.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
They're just making it.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, so actually, thank you.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We will make that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I think amendment throughout the planning piece anyway.
Kya Marienfeld:
I mean, yeah, it makes sense.
Kya Marienfeld:
I, you know, I think for a, you know, always thinking about just informing the
community and things like this or we had a public hearing that posted today.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yeah, so I hope that will help.
Kya Marienfeld:
And then it goes in front of Council on the court, but like actual number
comparisons to other communities, we don't need to call out.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah,
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
whatever it is, but say here's what a master plan development cost, for
example, Park City, and we were even looking at some non Utah, you know,
communities and where they were at so we basically did the NAR communities and
we did similar population communities and those the ones we saw
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
where they were a little closer because you can go to some of County or Park
City and you see what they're planning fees cost and they're well, when I would
even do a cross comparison of like canab and yeah, you know, Springville,
Kya Marienfeld:
Springville, Springdale.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Kya Marienfeld:
Or even, you know, communities that are not to the level that we're at now,
just to show that like we're not far from them either.
Kya Marienfeld:
It's not just we're comparing ourselves to Park City.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Right.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And that's it because we're not them, either.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So jumping all the way up there.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But really, it's a matter of ensuring we're covering our, our costs.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's really the idea.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So it is a bit custom of, well, how many review agents do we have Park City
might have teams of review people where that is the expense to the community but
yeah, so we already has criteria where we can't have like massive revenue coming
in.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yeah, for planning, or I mean, sorry for permitting and stuff like we have and
we can still have a high, but then we have to expect a low and so there that's
what these fees are kind of flexing with these particular fees, though, we
haven't done a fee adjustment prior to last year.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I don't even remember with the last fee adjustment it was years and years since
the fees had actually been looked at so we just did a minimal minimum change
which then was a ripple effect so these aren't even reflective of what we should
like Cory said what we should have done they're just, this is just us bringing
up the $85 to cover a minimum fee.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, that makes I mean I've been on the planning commission for a long time at
this point, we have never talked about.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, so which is actually the point is, I was gonna ask Marcy to talk about
this anyway is that as we're updating the master's here, this should be a living
document so yes we're doing this right now.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But it should be something that is evolving more concurrently.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And when we had done that audit, obviously we've had some turnover and finance
director position and how the admin structured where we've been, this has been
on the docket but clearly it's not been on fire enough, especially given the
community continued outreach and say, Hey, it stuff's too expensive.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
There's not a big rush to try to change this stuff but the longer we let this
go, the bigger of a jump it will become.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So with this audit Yeah, I think it can, it doesn't have to be at this regular
annual time, which is what a lot of the previous finance directors had said
like, let's not do this during master fee update, let's do this as a separate
audit somewhere else in the year.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And we just never got to it so we're poised to do that we're actually I think
getting a really great handle on a lot of these things Marcy are you're going to
deep dives into auditing multiple systems that we are.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So we're, we're really bringing things back, back up to speed so this will be
one we'll see probably soon.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I don't know if in the next year.
Miles Loftin:
That'd be nice.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, probably fall fiscal year.
Miles Loftin:
Yeah, well that's come up in discussion before like where we've tried to build
incentives in by reducing building permit fees, only to realize they're already
so low, there's no like we're already sitting on the floor and there's no room
for adjustment.
Miles Loftin:
So, every adjustment I've like looked over upon reviewing these seems pretty
darn reasonable.
Miles Loftin:
Yeah, like these are not large jumps.
Miles Loftin:
I mean, you know, like a minimum fee going $20 up for after how many years.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, yeah.
Kya Marienfeld:
When you're speaking at someone who actively pays these fees on a regular
basis.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
The $85 give you a little bit of background on why we chose $85 is we looked at
what an hour would cost to do a review.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
At the minimum, and it's $85.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
It was like around there we just did a flat 85 because staff time is, is of
course, your wage plus your salaries and etc so the $85 is only really looking
at one person.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
And commonly there's multiple people that review permitting but we didn't want
to hit or have a huge impact sometimes permits are really simple, you know, they
take 1520 minutes for like the simple roofing permit.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
For example, as long as it's like, you know, a simple roof.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I don't want to, I want to state anything but they're a lot simpler so the, the
rate of $85 is great covers whatever is needed, but then you have more complex
that maybe it's a little too low.
Miles Loftin:
So, yeah.
Miles Loftin:
Yeah, thankfully I also just don't think it $25 increase is really going to be
the make or break for anybody's working project.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Great.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Do you guys have any other questions concerns anything.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Great.
Kya Marienfeld:
Oh, like it's like you said you need to start to come close to covering costs
because I do think, you know, we're at a point where we're providing good
service to the community from all the departments at the city and planning and
zoning and building and everything it's important that that
Kya Marienfeld:
it can sustain itself at least at the barest minimum which it kind of seems
like, you know, that's, that's how we right keep the department's working for
people and how you guys can answer questions and yeah, and I don't want to talk
so much I think we're on the same page now we're just
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
talking philosophy but yeah, our city manager right now has a really great way
of approaching this which is that we as a community are providing a level of
service.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That has an equal amount to how much the community is buying into that so where
this can be balanced from a local perspective, we are in charge of that what our
services are and what the rates are that we apply where this is unique is both
in planning
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
and then building engineering off so auxiliary is the state is now infiltrating
with its amendments to its land use code and placing additional requirements on
us, mostly for speed and increase levels of service.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, it's not that we're we're one it's the state is mandating we perform
better, faster, all these things.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And the certain point like you said is that becomes too out of balance.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We will have a fall out where it can't be sustained at all.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, you know, you're working that way.
Kya Marienfeld:
Excuse me.
Kya Marienfeld:
I don't have any more questions.
Kya Marienfeld:
So, on the table would be a possible recommendation to city council to pass
this ordinance as usual options are we can make a positive recommendation, make
recommendation with amendments if we see fits or negatively recommend given
specific findings from the decision.
Kya Marienfeld:
I don't see any particular amendments that are required, it makes sense I think
just noting just cleaning up the language a little bit which Scott would happen
probably before the end anyways.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Kya Marienfeld:
As usual, there is a I think.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I think this is I've noticed on the city council report, as you can tell, we're
amending our staff report framework.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yes, there's still a few kinks in there that we're working out, one of them
being motion recommended motion framing, I noticed that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Well, that's what so I, yeah, we had some annexations go through recently where
the council did a great job in the spot that as I'm impressed, always a useful
thing to have that just available so beyond the staff recommendation, we will
start re introducing recommended motions as well.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Cool.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But for now, sorry guys, that's okay.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Right.
Miles Loftin:
You should be able to come up.
Miles Loftin:
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a shot.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Miles Loftin:
So I motion to forward a positive recommendation of ordinance 2025 dash zero
eight without modifications to my sequence.
Miles Loftin:
That'll work.
Jill Tatton:
I will go ahead and second that.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, we have a motion for positive recommendation from miles and a second from
Jill.
Kya Marienfeld:
Any other questions for staff or discussions.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, all in favor, all in favor of the motion on the table.
Kya Marienfeld:
Please say aye.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, motion passes three zero unanimously.
Kya Marienfeld:
Thank you, Marcy.
Kya Marienfeld:
Thank you, everybody.
Kya Marienfeld:
Long process but little bits at a time.
Kya Marienfeld:
Thanks.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Perfect.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Come back anytime.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
All you know is the master fee schedule changes.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I'm sure.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, there you go.
Kya Marienfeld:
There you go.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Kya Marienfeld:
Next, we just have future agenda items.
Kya Marienfeld:
Wonderful.
Moab City Planner Johanna Blanco:
We don't have anything except for the evening readiness has been being reviewed
by the city's attorney is ready for another discussion that will probably be
looking for final comments we've refined to probably as much as staff can.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, there may be some discretionary routes that we go and then we talked
about what we may do is layout options, all the options are available but
they're again that kind of your body's discretion of how those options might
work.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So there are going to be some questions that we have for you but following that
we're going to dive directly into the public process with public hearing and
advance that ordinance for approval city council so this is kind of the last
working session to tire and everything out.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So of course if there are bigger concerns I know Carolyn's been pretty well
involved in this.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
It'd be favorable to try to get any of those in advance of the meeting, so that
we can come prepared with answers to have some direction to us.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, I was gonna say my, my note on that was also, if we could get what we're
to review as far and advance the meeting as possible just to be able to really
find Chief Koma and I sort of particularly on behalf of Carolyn as well.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, and this may be one that we are advancing that material to you for review
and advance of the agenda, as there may be items that we're kind of moving on.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We'll just send this to you as a material if we can do it, it'll be fine.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Perfect.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So that's what I think we'll do this and then also any ordinances I think
that's a good system ordinances typically will require that much greater of you
timelines and any other items that may be holding up the agenda do in here, but
I do think that's about all we have as far as action items go.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Anything else, Kelsey's that you're thinking of.
Kya Marienfeld:
So that would be a regular meeting on the 26th.
Miles Loftin:
So, yeah, sounds like not.
Kya Marienfeld:
We will not be meeting on the 26th.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Okay, which is all that's all right.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Okay.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And this is one where I don't think it would be essential for us to try to
squeeze in a special meeting I think we can probably move, I think we're still
won't have Jill.
Jill Tatton:
I won't have, I won't be.
Jill Tatton:
But I'll be here on the 10th.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Sure.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Right.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I'm going to go ahead and tentatively aim for that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
As things come up, and we're definitely having a lot of moving parts right now
that there may be an item from the city council perspective for admin that's
like no we need you guys to do this so we may have to get creative in the
meantime but respecting your time of course.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Cool.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We'll aim for July 10.
Miles Loftin:
I'm happy to make a special meeting work but there's going to be a chunk of
time out and I will be sure be back by the 10th.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Okay.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Alrighty, well then maybe we'll have a pretty full roster but Jenna just by
that point.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, hopefully, because I may be going to next meeting.
Kya Marienfeld:
All things go well I probably will be here on the 24th.
Kya Marienfeld:
So, that said, understanding that we are under seated right now in our planning
commission membership.
Kya Marienfeld:
As long as we can do remote meetings.
Kya Marienfeld:
I will continue to do my dangest to make meetings.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I brought that up we have some department had meetings that will have
regularly.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I brought that up that with our planning commission we are still short and they
may be kind of in different time frames, losing forum ability altogether
temporarily out permanently out in some cases possibly.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, it's maybe not an urgent problem right now but the I think the light is
starting to flash.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, really needing to reach out to the community, our communications director
is again, plugging away.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So we're, I think everyone is doing what they can to acquire attention but if
you're listening.
Kya Marienfeld:
You know how to be a planning and that's right you're listening to this
meeting.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And then just as reminded for us I know you know within our individual circles
within the community I think one of the toughest things that we're seeing right
now is that there are people that maybe live within the county that are
interested but as not qualifying residents.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, again, just as you're out in your, your native circles try to circulate
that don't know who what rogue person, breaking mustangs for a doctor might find
out, which is how I got a planning commission.
Kya Marienfeld:
So it can be never know where you're gonna find the planning commission and it
can lead you to be planning court should do that do.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, awesome.
Kya Marienfeld:
All that said, thanks everybody.
Kya Marienfeld:
Good short meeting I will adjourn at 633pm.
Good to go.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, I will call to order this June 12 2025 regular meeting of the Melab
City Planning Commission at 606 p.m. Thanks for patience everyone are as often
having some technological difficulties here in chamber.
Kya Marienfeld:
First item of business is citizens to be heard.
Kya Marienfeld:
We do not have anyone here in chambers for citizens to be heard.
Kya Marienfeld:
So we will move on.
Kya Marienfeld:
We also didn't receive any emails about anything or items on the agenda as
well.
Kya Marienfeld:
Also in attendance tonight our city staffers, Johanna Blanco, Corey Shurt,
Marcy Mason, Kelsey Garcia, our city council liaison Luke Wojciechowski, and
then planning commissioners myself Kya Marienfeld, Jill Tatton, and Myles
Lofton.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, first item of business is approval of minutes from our special
meeting last week, our June 4 2025 special meeting.
Kya Marienfeld:
If you folks have had a chance to look over that can entertain a motion or if
we need to make any corrections.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Miles Loftin:
I'll go ahead and move to approve the minutes from the June 4 2025 special
meeting.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, we have a motion to approve from Myles is there a second.
Jill Tatton:
I will second that.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, a second from Jill.
Kya Marienfeld:
All in favor of approving the minutes from our June 4th meeting say aye.
Kya Marienfeld:
Aye.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, motion passes minutes approved.
Kya Marienfeld:
Of course I just exited out of my agenda.
Kya Marienfeld:
Here we go.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Kya Marienfeld:
Next, our action item for the evening, item 4.1, which is consideration of
adoption of ordinance 202508 an ordinance amending title three of the municipal
code update chapter 3.50 master fee schedule and modifying certain fees and
rates charged by the city.
Kya Marienfeld:
This is a discussion and possible action.
Kya Marienfeld:
And it looks like we have our city treasurer Marcy Mason here at the dais to
present.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Thank you guys.
Kya Marienfeld:
Welcome.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Let me share and apologize I did not make it.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Okay, so I don't know if you guys had a chance to review the ordinance and
everything for this.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
This is a brand new process that we were informed of by our attorneys that we
are now required to put the master fee schedule in front of planning commission
for recommendation to city council, because of the impacts or implications it
may have on our community for building.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
So, all kinds of stuff so.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Any how close this sorry it's in my way on my screen.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Okay, so you can't use touchscreen on it.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I'm not sure if you guys have any questions or if you guys want me to go
through anything I'm happy to just kind of review the changes we have that are
associated to planning and specifically which is building fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I may additionally comment on that that, again, specifically to what the state
code update is referring to is development development review or development
impact fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So that's very broad, and we're trying to negotiate with that is but as much
said what we're looking at, specifically in our field tonight would be the
building fees, which is the section we're looking at 165.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And then the following section which is engineering and planning these those
are those are really what we have the authority to be reviewing tonight so if
there are questions that are outside of that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We have the treasure here but that's not really what this recognition will be
based on so like Mars said this is meant to be how these fees are being adjusted
to affect what it is that falls within your purview.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yes, and we understand that you guys have probably not seen this at this
capacity before.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
This is our master fee schedule this is every single fee that the city charges
to the community, essentially.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
While you're streaming down maybe I'll comment a few of these.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Go ahead that with building fees in particular all that we're really doing
within this section if you did take time to review it is there were adjustments,
given the requirements that again the state adjustments
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
have been placing on the plan review and building permit process that we're
essentially raising what is that minimum fee rate from 65 to 85 to compensate
for the lack of better term expedited requirements the building department
spacing so
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
more staff time at a quicker rate.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So these are specifically building fees regulated that we cannot be charging
more than it is the offset that it takes to exercise the service.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's kind of universal I think throughout most of the building and review
fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
What we will see though, is if when we get down to the planning fees there.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
They're a little bit larger fees than what we're seeing here as far as minimums
go.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
However, given most of those exercises go through DRT many departments and
other review divisions.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We're not even getting close to breaking even and we have done an audit on this
and have the intention to someday bring us closer to a neutral revenue balance
to our expenditures with this.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But at this time we're within the planning realm we'll get there, just raising
them that they're consistent within themselves.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But we when we did this audit back in 2020 2022.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I think it was late 2021.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We found that we were grossly in we did population like communities as well as
Resort type communities.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We were by far the lowest among all those even given that we're both we're a
small city but we're handling big level projects and complex projects.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We still have these less than and I don't want to call any new space out by
name, but some municipalities that are not dealing with the things we're dealing
with, we're charging even less than they are.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So we're, we're well behind in updating this.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Again, this is just getting us to where it's consistent within itself but I
think that's my HBO effects.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Thanks Marcy.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yeah, no problem at all.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
And I think what you're trying to emphasize is eventually we would like to have
a fee study done so that we can have it like, you know, a solid understanding of
all of our fees and, and be able to bring it back to planning and or council
with a true recommendation, depending on our expenditures and stuff.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
But that is like way down the road and above my, my head so Okay, so, um, do
you guys have any specific questions that you would like to ask, as Corey said
for the planning stuff is very everything that's changing is red line to make it
very clear on those changes and if you guys have questions I'd be happy to
answer them.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Or Cory.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Would you mind scrolling down to the planning engineering fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So I think as we scroll down, you're going to see Some of these red lines
exist.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Again, minor edits that are making some of these minimum fees for again, some
of our more complex projects, at least match the minimum planning exercise
process fees.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So master plan development, for example, as a $350 base fee, plus $50 per lot.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's what we're changing it to.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That is just basically covered planning that doesn't cover all of the
additional plan review that goes behind what you can tell some of our more
recent MPD is which are hyper complex.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So again, just getting neutral.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We're not getting neutral.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We're just trying to make it consistent within itself.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Sorry.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Correct.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
And the ordinance that I prepared for this is very detailed.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
It's telling you for revising updating what it changed from what it went to to
try to have it compacted into one place so you don't have to scroll, you know,
55 pages worth of documents or 53 pages worth of documents.
Kya Marienfeld:
The side by side is nice and I think the red line in particular.
Kya Marienfeld:
You want to change coordinator in all forms because you're still planning
director.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Was that on the large scale projects.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I'm seeing that now.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, I think, yeah, we play coordinator will be the term that we want to use
and I'm seeing just below that that even playing directors still exists.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So yes, I think the reason we can do a find and replace.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yes, that was landscaping is because we were currently going through that was
picked up.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So thank you.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And yes, I think that'd be a great recommendation to just a nitpick but I mean,
no, definitely.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And that's, you know, unfortunately for us, the building fee changes.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's exactly what happened.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
They changed a series of them but some of them got missed that should have been
changed last year.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's the building fees that we're doing right now.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's already been premeditated.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
They're just making it.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, so actually, thank you.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We will make that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I think amendment throughout the planning piece anyway.
Kya Marienfeld:
I mean, yeah, it makes sense.
Kya Marienfeld:
I, you know, I think for a, you know, always thinking about just informing the
community and things like this or we had a public hearing that posted today.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yeah, so I hope that will help.
Kya Marienfeld:
And then it goes in front of Council on the court, but like actual number
comparisons to other communities, we don't need to call out.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah,
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
whatever it is, but say here's what a master plan development cost, for
example, Park City, and we were even looking at some non Utah, you know,
communities and where they were at so we basically did the NAR communities and
we did similar population communities and those the ones we saw
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
where they were a little closer because you can go to some of County or Park
City and you see what they're planning fees cost and they're well, when I would
even do a cross comparison of like canab and yeah, you know, Springville,
Kya Marienfeld:
Springville, Springdale.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Kya Marienfeld:
Or even, you know, communities that are not to the level that we're at now,
just to show that like we're not far from them either.
Kya Marienfeld:
It's not just we're comparing ourselves to Park City.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Right.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And that's it because we're not them, either.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So jumping all the way up there.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But really, it's a matter of ensuring we're covering our, our costs.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That's really the idea.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So it is a bit custom of, well, how many review agents do we have Park City
might have teams of review people where that is the expense to the community but
yeah, so we already has criteria where we can't have like massive revenue coming
in.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Yeah, for planning, or I mean, sorry for permitting and stuff like we have and
we can still have a high, but then we have to expect a low and so there that's
what these fees are kind of flexing with these particular fees, though, we
haven't done a fee adjustment prior to last year.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I don't even remember with the last fee adjustment it was years and years since
the fees had actually been looked at so we just did a minimal minimum change
which then was a ripple effect so these aren't even reflective of what we should
like Cory said what we should have done they're just, this is just us bringing
up the $85 to cover a minimum fee.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, that makes I mean I've been on the planning commission for a long time at
this point, we have never talked about.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, so which is actually the point is, I was gonna ask Marcy to talk about
this anyway is that as we're updating the master's here, this should be a living
document so yes we're doing this right now.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But it should be something that is evolving more concurrently.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And when we had done that audit, obviously we've had some turnover and finance
director position and how the admin structured where we've been, this has been
on the docket but clearly it's not been on fire enough, especially given the
community continued outreach and say, Hey, it stuff's too expensive.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
There's not a big rush to try to change this stuff but the longer we let this
go, the bigger of a jump it will become.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So with this audit Yeah, I think it can, it doesn't have to be at this regular
annual time, which is what a lot of the previous finance directors had said
like, let's not do this during master fee update, let's do this as a separate
audit somewhere else in the year.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And we just never got to it so we're poised to do that we're actually I think
getting a really great handle on a lot of these things Marcy are you're going to
deep dives into auditing multiple systems that we are.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So we're, we're really bringing things back, back up to speed so this will be
one we'll see probably soon.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I don't know if in the next year.
Miles Loftin:
That'd be nice.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, probably fall fiscal year.
Miles Loftin:
Yeah, well that's come up in discussion before like where we've tried to build
incentives in by reducing building permit fees, only to realize they're already
so low, there's no like we're already sitting on the floor and there's no room
for adjustment.
Miles Loftin:
So, every adjustment I've like looked over upon reviewing these seems pretty
darn reasonable.
Miles Loftin:
Yeah, like these are not large jumps.
Miles Loftin:
I mean, you know, like a minimum fee going $20 up for after how many years.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, yeah.
Kya Marienfeld:
When you're speaking at someone who actively pays these fees on a regular
basis.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
The $85 give you a little bit of background on why we chose $85 is we looked at
what an hour would cost to do a review.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
At the minimum, and it's $85.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
It was like around there we just did a flat 85 because staff time is, is of
course, your wage plus your salaries and etc so the $85 is only really looking
at one person.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
And commonly there's multiple people that review permitting but we didn't want
to hit or have a huge impact sometimes permits are really simple, you know, they
take 1520 minutes for like the simple roofing permit.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
For example, as long as it's like, you know, a simple roof.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I don't want to, I want to state anything but they're a lot simpler so the, the
rate of $85 is great covers whatever is needed, but then you have more complex
that maybe it's a little too low.
Miles Loftin:
So, yeah.
Miles Loftin:
Yeah, thankfully I also just don't think it $25 increase is really going to be
the make or break for anybody's working project.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Great.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Do you guys have any other questions concerns anything.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Great.
Kya Marienfeld:
Oh, like it's like you said you need to start to come close to covering costs
because I do think, you know, we're at a point where we're providing good
service to the community from all the departments at the city and planning and
zoning and building and everything it's important that that
Kya Marienfeld:
it can sustain itself at least at the barest minimum which it kind of seems
like, you know, that's, that's how we right keep the department's working for
people and how you guys can answer questions and yeah, and I don't want to talk
so much I think we're on the same page now we're just
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
talking philosophy but yeah, our city manager right now has a really great way
of approaching this which is that we as a community are providing a level of
service.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
That has an equal amount to how much the community is buying into that so where
this can be balanced from a local perspective, we are in charge of that what our
services are and what the rates are that we apply where this is unique is both
in planning
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
and then building engineering off so auxiliary is the state is now infiltrating
with its amendments to its land use code and placing additional requirements on
us, mostly for speed and increase levels of service.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, it's not that we're we're one it's the state is mandating we perform
better, faster, all these things.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And the certain point like you said is that becomes too out of balance.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We will have a fall out where it can't be sustained at all.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, you know, you're working that way.
Kya Marienfeld:
Excuse me.
Kya Marienfeld:
I don't have any more questions.
Kya Marienfeld:
So, on the table would be a possible recommendation to city council to pass
this ordinance as usual options are we can make a positive recommendation, make
recommendation with amendments if we see fits or negatively recommend given
specific findings from the decision.
Kya Marienfeld:
I don't see any particular amendments that are required, it makes sense I think
just noting just cleaning up the language a little bit which Scott would happen
probably before the end anyways.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah.
Kya Marienfeld:
As usual, there is a I think.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I think this is I've noticed on the city council report, as you can tell, we're
amending our staff report framework.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yes, there's still a few kinks in there that we're working out, one of them
being motion recommended motion framing, I noticed that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Well, that's what so I, yeah, we had some annexations go through recently where
the council did a great job in the spot that as I'm impressed, always a useful
thing to have that just available so beyond the staff recommendation, we will
start re introducing recommended motions as well.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Cool.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
But for now, sorry guys, that's okay.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Right.
Miles Loftin:
You should be able to come up.
Miles Loftin:
I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it a shot.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Miles Loftin:
So I motion to forward a positive recommendation of ordinance 2025 dash zero
eight without modifications to my sequence.
Miles Loftin:
That'll work.
Jill Tatton:
I will go ahead and second that.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, we have a motion for positive recommendation from miles and a second from
Jill.
Kya Marienfeld:
Any other questions for staff or discussions.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, all in favor, all in favor of the motion on the table.
Kya Marienfeld:
Please say aye.
Kya Marienfeld:
Okay, motion passes three zero unanimously.
Kya Marienfeld:
Thank you, Marcy.
Kya Marienfeld:
Thank you, everybody.
Kya Marienfeld:
Long process but little bits at a time.
Kya Marienfeld:
Thanks.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Perfect.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
Come back anytime.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
All you know is the master fee schedule changes.
Treasurer Marcy Mason:
I'm sure.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, there you go.
Kya Marienfeld:
There you go.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right.
Kya Marienfeld:
Next, we just have future agenda items.
Kya Marienfeld:
Wonderful.
Moab City Planner Johanna Blanco:
We don't have anything except for the evening readiness has been being reviewed
by the city's attorney is ready for another discussion that will probably be
looking for final comments we've refined to probably as much as staff can.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, there may be some discretionary routes that we go and then we talked
about what we may do is layout options, all the options are available but
they're again that kind of your body's discretion of how those options might
work.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So there are going to be some questions that we have for you but following that
we're going to dive directly into the public process with public hearing and
advance that ordinance for approval city council so this is kind of the last
working session to tire and everything out.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So of course if there are bigger concerns I know Carolyn's been pretty well
involved in this.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
It'd be favorable to try to get any of those in advance of the meeting, so that
we can come prepared with answers to have some direction to us.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, I was gonna say my, my note on that was also, if we could get what we're
to review as far and advance the meeting as possible just to be able to really
find Chief Koma and I sort of particularly on behalf of Carolyn as well.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, and this may be one that we are advancing that material to you for review
and advance of the agenda, as there may be items that we're kind of moving on.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We'll just send this to you as a material if we can do it, it'll be fine.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Perfect.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So that's what I think we'll do this and then also any ordinances I think
that's a good system ordinances typically will require that much greater of you
timelines and any other items that may be holding up the agenda do in here, but
I do think that's about all we have as far as action items go.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Anything else, Kelsey's that you're thinking of.
Kya Marienfeld:
So that would be a regular meeting on the 26th.
Miles Loftin:
So, yeah, sounds like not.
Kya Marienfeld:
We will not be meeting on the 26th.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Okay, which is all that's all right.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Okay.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And this is one where I don't think it would be essential for us to try to
squeeze in a special meeting I think we can probably move, I think we're still
won't have Jill.
Jill Tatton:
I won't have, I won't be.
Jill Tatton:
But I'll be here on the 10th.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Sure.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Right.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I'm going to go ahead and tentatively aim for that.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
As things come up, and we're definitely having a lot of moving parts right now
that there may be an item from the city council perspective for admin that's
like no we need you guys to do this so we may have to get creative in the
meantime but respecting your time of course.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Cool.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
We'll aim for July 10.
Miles Loftin:
I'm happy to make a special meeting work but there's going to be a chunk of
time out and I will be sure be back by the 10th.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Okay.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Alrighty, well then maybe we'll have a pretty full roster but Jenna just by
that point.
Kya Marienfeld:
Yeah, hopefully, because I may be going to next meeting.
Kya Marienfeld:
All things go well I probably will be here on the 24th.
Kya Marienfeld:
So, that said, understanding that we are under seated right now in our planning
commission membership.
Kya Marienfeld:
As long as we can do remote meetings.
Kya Marienfeld:
I will continue to do my dangest to make meetings.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I brought that up we have some department had meetings that will have
regularly.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
I brought that up that with our planning commission we are still short and they
may be kind of in different time frames, losing forum ability altogether
temporarily out permanently out in some cases possibly.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, it's maybe not an urgent problem right now but the I think the light is
starting to flash.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
Yeah, really needing to reach out to the community, our communications director
is again, plugging away.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So we're, I think everyone is doing what they can to acquire attention but if
you're listening.
Kya Marienfeld:
You know how to be a planning and that's right you're listening to this
meeting.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
And then just as reminded for us I know you know within our individual circles
within the community I think one of the toughest things that we're seeing right
now is that there are people that maybe live within the county that are
interested but as not qualifying residents.
Community Development Director Cory Shurtleff:
So, again, just as you're out in your, your native circles try to circulate
that don't know who what rogue person, breaking mustangs for a doctor might find
out, which is how I got a planning commission.
Kya Marienfeld:
So it can be never know where you're gonna find the planning commission and it
can lead you to be planning court should do that do.
Kya Marienfeld:
All right, awesome.
Kya Marienfeld:
All that said, thanks everybody.
Kya Marienfeld:
Good short meeting I will adjourn at 633pm.
Transcript Notice: This transcript has been auto-generated then reviewed by Moab Sun News staff for clarity, but may still contain occasional errors in speaker labels or phrasing. We recommend double-checking key quotes or context against the official meeting video when accuracy is critical.
Meeting Summary
Moab Planning Commission Approves Fee Schedule Update
At its brief June 12 meeting, the Moab City Planning Commission approved changes to the city’s Master Fee Schedule, updating Chapter 3.50 of the Moab Municipal Code. The revised fees apply to various city services, including planning, permitting, and utilities.
The commission also formally approved the minutes from a June 4 special meeting. No public comments were made, and the meeting proceeded without significant debate.
Read the full agenda for the Moab City Planning Commission meeting, June 12, 2025
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